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grover norquist, persona non grata. karl rove, completely unwelcomed in many corners in which he was star in the sun king. i think as people are feeling that, you're sensing that they really need to rethink in both short term and long term what kind of a republican party can they be? >> okay. donna gentile-o'donnell and michael eric dyson. professor, great to have you with us tonight. >>> there's a lot more coming up in the next half hour of "the ed show." stay tuned. >> we're not going to implement obama care in florida. >> we're going to continue to push back on washington, d.c. >> add new jersey and south dakota to the list of states where republican governors are still fighting obama care. i'll ask howard dean what this means for the people. >>> i know you are, but what am i? >> america's zaniest congressman takes a stand on a cause close to his heart. >> we shouldn't eliminate the word lunatic. it really has application around this town. >>> and apple's ceo breaks big news to brian williams on "rock center." >> we'
grover norquist, persona non grata. karl rove, completely unwelcomed in many corners in which he was star in the sun king. i think as people are feeling that, you're sensing that they really need to rethink in both short term and long term what kind of a republican party can they be? >> okay. donna gentile-o'donnell and michael eric dyson. professor, great to have you with us tonight. >>> there's a lot more coming up in the next half hour of "the ed show." stay tuned....
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he's like the grover norquist of the senate. he's the guy the other republican senators are really afraid of. and that is because more so than anyone else and definitely more than any other republican politician, demint is behind the tea party strategy of purifying the republican party in the cleansing fire of party primaries. demint created this pac called the senate conservativist fund, a pac he made into a super pac which makes it more super and exists to help conservative republicans beat other republicans. "since 2009 demint has raised more than $17 million to promote promising candidates in an effort to remake the senate not just in a republican image but in a diehard conservative one." the image of jim demint, even. and he has often done it by going to electoral war with his own party leadership. in the 2012 midterm elections demint threw his weight behind marco rubio in the republican primary for florida's senate race. despite the fact that the national republican senatorial committee and republican leader mitch mcconnel
he's like the grover norquist of the senate. he's the guy the other republican senators are really afraid of. and that is because more so than anyone else and definitely more than any other republican politician, demint is behind the tea party strategy of purifying the republican party in the cleansing fire of party primaries. demint created this pac called the senate conservativist fund, a pac he made into a super pac which makes it more super and exists to help conservative republicans beat...
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grover norquist is not bending. not yet. >> well, president obama, or as mr. norquist refers to him, obama -- president obama has done something mr. norquist has never done in his life and that's get people to vote for him. so i would also remind mr. norquist who conveniently forgets that president clinton raised taxes on the wealthy and created 22 million jobs. president bush cut taxes on the wealthy and created 1 million jobs. so his economic expertise is a little behind here. but the truth of the matter is, everybody voted in this election, the president said he would raise taxes on people earning over $250,000. that's what he's going to do. that's what's going to happen. he has the authority of an election behind him. running for office is a difficult thing to do, and the people that win the elections have a lot more moral authority in a democracy than people who talk about elections. >> ryan, that does seem to be the point. people like grover norquist may not like it and republicans may not like it, but that wasn't what this election said american people
grover norquist is not bending. not yet. >> well, president obama, or as mr. norquist refers to him, obama -- president obama has done something mr. norquist has never done in his life and that's get people to vote for him. so i would also remind mr. norquist who conveniently forgets that president clinton raised taxes on the wealthy and created 22 million jobs. president bush cut taxes on the wealthy and created 1 million jobs. so his economic expertise is a little behind here. but the...
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think of grover norquist and the influence he has. i don't like grover norquist. i don't like jim demint, but that's what i think he's thinking. >> john, i want to go to the house of representatives. it looks like some real purging going on over there. we have a number of right wing members of the house who have been knocked off their committees. speaker boehner is exerting control. look at four republican members who were recently kicked off their committees, justin amash, huelskamp, david schweikert, and walter jones were booted from the house financial services committee. all four of these men have a history of voting against boehner and the house republican leadership. it looks like they have one thing in common, he's too right for boehner. >> i think the real problem for boehner is he's playing a risky game in the sense that people are starting to whisper that in these negotiations he actually is not being tough enough, that he should be out there saying that this president is addicted to spending. he needs an intervention, and this is the fight right now. in
think of grover norquist and the influence he has. i don't like grover norquist. i don't like jim demint, but that's what i think he's thinking. >> john, i want to go to the house of representatives. it looks like some real purging going on over there. we have a number of right wing members of the house who have been knocked off their committees. speaker boehner is exerting control. look at four republican members who were recently kicked off their committees, justin amash, huelskamp,...
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and we've spent a lot of time talking about grover norquist, another person out of government in the mind of everyone serving in government. and that is a way to make change. >> ryan, we talked about the heritage foundation. and if he is going to be an activist, is heritage the right place to go? senator demint is the one who said if we're able to stop obama on the affordable care act, it will be his waterloo. it will break him. the idea for an individual mandate which is the centerpiece of the affordable care act was birthed at the heritage foundation. >> right. but i think jim demint can kind of shape the heritage foundation to his political will. and the fact that he is able to go to the heritage foundation actually says a lot about where the two parties are on the spectrum. you could never imagine a democratic senator the equivalent of demint. you know, you couldn't imagine somebody like bernie sanders, for instance. you couldn't imagine him going to run the center for progress there is too much daylight between the establishment in washington and the kind of left wing of the dem
and we've spent a lot of time talking about grover norquist, another person out of government in the mind of everyone serving in government. and that is a way to make change. >> ryan, we talked about the heritage foundation. and if he is going to be an activist, is heritage the right place to go? senator demint is the one who said if we're able to stop obama on the affordable care act, it will be his waterloo. it will break him. the idea for an individual mandate which is the centerpiece...
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they have made a huge move after two decades when, you know, grover norquist enforced very strictly this pledge that said no tax increases ever. you know, over my dead body. republicans have made a very significant move that says, okay. we will accept some tax increases. but let's remember, there are some very important details to be worked out. how much and when. will they just say, okay, we will stand aside while democrats pass this tax cut for the middle class and then let the tax cuts for the wealthy engs pyre? that could happen. but does it happen before the end of the year? does it happen after the end of the year? >> now, dana, on that point, a lot of this is that they seem to have already lost the american public. in a new series of polls. quinnipiac shows that americans have views close to the president. 65% say raise taxes on $250,000 plus. 85% of polls pledged against raising taxes. that's 85%. 51% think that the gop is negotiating in bad faith. so the public seems to be gone from the republican cause. >> right. by two to one in virtually all of these polls we are seeing that
they have made a huge move after two decades when, you know, grover norquist enforced very strictly this pledge that said no tax increases ever. you know, over my dead body. republicans have made a very significant move that says, okay. we will accept some tax increases. but let's remember, there are some very important details to be worked out. how much and when. will they just say, okay, we will stand aside while democrats pass this tax cut for the middle class and then let the tax cuts for...
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you've called grover norquist's pledge handcuffs. are all absolute positions handcuffs for a lawmaker? >> you know what, look at what's going on right now. you have one side saying we're not doing any spending cuts. the other side saying we're not doing any tax cuts. raising taxes. it's a stalemate from the get go. again you have to look at what we're trying to accomplish. and the bigger picture is we're looking at $16.2 trillion in debt. and with either plan that we look at, whether it's mr. obama's or what's been reported on the republican side, our national debt will increase anywhere from 7.7 trillion to 9.1 trillion in the next 10 years. and that's added onto the 16.2 trillion. we need to look at the amount of debt that we've incurred. and we need to work at that to reduce that. and again, it goes back to growing an economy. >> all right. well, thank you very much. florida's congressman elect ted yoho. please next time all my alex. >> thank you. >>> in 13 days some believe the world will come to an end. we got to talk about that
you've called grover norquist's pledge handcuffs. are all absolute positions handcuffs for a lawmaker? >> you know what, look at what's going on right now. you have one side saying we're not doing any spending cuts. the other side saying we're not doing any tax cuts. raising taxes. it's a stalemate from the get go. again you have to look at what we're trying to accomplish. and the bigger picture is we're looking at $16.2 trillion in debt. and with either plan that we look at, whether it's...
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marco rubio, paul ryan, michele bachmann, john thune and others have sworn allegiance to grover norquist by signing on to the federal taxpayer protection pledge. all thee three of the rising stars are women that doesn't mean they support women's reproductive choices. several would deny the women the right guaranteed to them by roe v. wade. even as the new herd presents your fresh faces, it's array of gender and versatility that we in nerdland will take each of you at face value. but will then move on quickly to ask what are your new ideas? at the table, matt welch is editor in chief of reason. editor in reason of chief magazine and the co-author of declaration of independence. conservative writer tara wall was a senior media adviser for. an associate professor of science at columbia university. a fellow at the roosevelt institute and manuel reyes. thanks for having you here. it's nice to have you. >>> tara, welcome to nerdland. >> how did i know you were coming to me first. >> now i would like you to explain your party. >> lay it all on the table. >> in a certain way, it's so early, i fe
marco rubio, paul ryan, michele bachmann, john thune and others have sworn allegiance to grover norquist by signing on to the federal taxpayer protection pledge. all thee three of the rising stars are women that doesn't mean they support women's reproductive choices. several would deny the women the right guaranteed to them by roe v. wade. even as the new herd presents your fresh faces, it's array of gender and versatility that we in nerdland will take each of you at face value. but will then...
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they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> congresswoman, some democrats are saying that this is not the situation, it's not going to be mano, as we've been saying. what do you know about that in terms of how they are negotiating and is it the best for them to be one on one? >> well, i think it does not hurt for them to be one on one. i have to be concerned about what the leaders are saying about being excluded. but if we take this moment and if this is what they have decided to do, let them go in there and say something to each other, that they feel they cannot say with anyone else in the room and see if that's going to move this forward. i don't think it hurts to have them do one on one for a part of this negotiation. >> and as we get to the negotiations, what is the give and take. if speaker john boehner is, as our political director chuck todd says, ready to eat their own on the tax rate, do you go for 37 instead of 39.5 or 35? on what entitlements do you believe democrats are ready to eat their own? >> well, first of all, on the tax rate, i do think that
they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> congresswoman, some democrats are saying that this is not the situation, it's not going to be mano, as we've been saying. what do you know about that in terms of how they are negotiating and is it the best for them to be one on one? >> well, i think it does not hurt for them to be one on one. i have to be concerned about what the leaders are saying about being excluded. but if we take this moment and if this is what...
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he teaches at columbia university and recently went off on grover norquist to sign an oath they will not raise taxes. >> rightfully went off at grover norquist. >> stephanie: that's treason to sign a pledge. >> intellectuals tend to be liberal because they think. >> stephanie: there's facts and stuff involved. okay. tim wildman on the american family radio thing. show. >> i think if it would have been a white president -- a white president running against mitt romney, he loses. i think the racial dynamic played a large part in president obama winning. >> that's deep thinking. >> stephanie: that's horribly racist right there. he won a second time because he's black. two landslides. yeah. okay. eric bolling on the 5. a little bob costas bashing. >> i saw this tragedy happen. saturday morning i saw it. i was like how long before someone, someone uses that pulpit to say it has to be head trauma or something else like gun control. i never expected nbc to allow bob costas to come out and do something on their national -- costas is a coward though. he didn't even say he believes this. he sa
he teaches at columbia university and recently went off on grover norquist to sign an oath they will not raise taxes. >> rightfully went off at grover norquist. >> stephanie: that's treason to sign a pledge. >> intellectuals tend to be liberal because they think. >> stephanie: there's facts and stuff involved. okay. tim wildman on the american family radio thing. show. >> i think if it would have been a white president -- a white president running against mitt...
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grover norquist saying we need to put a leash on the president. not okay. twenty-nine minutes after the hour. right back on the "stephanie miller show." ♪ very, very excited about that and very proud of that. >>beltway politics from inside the loop. >>we tackle the big issues here in our nation's capital, around the country and around the globe. >>dc columnist and four time emmy winner bill press opens current's morning news block. >>we'll do our best to carry the flag from 6 to 9 every morning. >>liberal and proud of it. where you don't back down from a challenge. this is the age of knowing how to make things happen. so, why let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four ho
grover norquist saying we need to put a leash on the president. not okay. twenty-nine minutes after the hour. right back on the "stephanie miller show." ♪ very, very excited about that and very proud of that. >>beltway politics from inside the loop. >>we tackle the big issues here in our nation's capital, around the country and around the globe. >>dc columnist and four time emmy winner bill press opens current's morning news block. >>we'll do our best to...
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grover norquist also an outsider, as you mentioned. clearly that works. the other piece about scott that i think is so interesting, even though as you pointed out, he is not on my cell we are not texting, we are not calling. >> but i would be the first to get up and give credit to a republican party that thought more about how to include minority voices in leadership. it's something they have struggled with. they should do it. and policy is important too there is a whole question around civil rights. i would argue way behind. but representation matters. jay-z famously said on his most recent album, when you see me, see you. politics works the same way. you want success to be shared. you want it to be represented. and i would urge the republicans to think long and hard about how to have a leadership structure that looks more like america. >> you just dropped the mic. i love it. i love it. more from the brain trust on the other side of this break as the supreme court is about to take up same-sex marriage. it is being called a watershed moment in the fight f
grover norquist also an outsider, as you mentioned. clearly that works. the other piece about scott that i think is so interesting, even though as you pointed out, he is not on my cell we are not texting, we are not calling. >> but i would be the first to get up and give credit to a republican party that thought more about how to include minority voices in leadership. it's something they have struggled with. they should do it. and policy is important too there is a whole question around...
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they've got to get through the rocky shoels of grover norquist. >> well this isn't a progress report because there's no progress to report. the phone call was pleasant, but was just more of the same. >> what do we to make of that. the rocky shoals of norquist versus stalemate. >> i think this feels to me like the theater, feels like ka bookie theater, but the story of washington once in a while in these performance is somebody knifes somebody else. i think there's -- >> no disrespect to ka bookie but sometimes it's cloak and dagger. >> and there's this fear that maybes this will go off the rails. also i think been lots and lots of hype about -- i mean the metaphor of a cliff, the need to fill cable news hours at times, i think there's times this sense that a catastrophe is about to strike. most people following it closely think it's likely to get resolved. jobs numbers matter a lot less the month after the election. tiny popularity issues are not the central factor here. it's these negotiations between two guys. >> ayman you're inside the capitol dome right now. what is the sense? we
they've got to get through the rocky shoels of grover norquist. >> well this isn't a progress report because there's no progress to report. the phone call was pleasant, but was just more of the same. >> what do we to make of that. the rocky shoals of norquist versus stalemate. >> i think this feels to me like the theater, feels like ka bookie theater, but the story of washington once in a while in these performance is somebody knifes somebody else. i think there's -- >>...
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grover norquist saying we need to put a leash on the president. not okay. twenty-nine minutes after the hour. right back on the "stephanie miller show." ♪ exciting issue. from financial regulation, iran getting a nuclear bomb, civil war in syria, fraud on wall street, destruction of medicare and medicaid. there are real issues here. having been a governor, i know that trade-offs are tough. things everyday exploding around the world that leave no shortage for exciting conversations. i want our viewer to understand why things have happened. at the end of the show, you know what has happened, why its happened and more importantly, what's going to happen tomorrow. ♪ >> announcer: stephanie miller. >> i'm going to walk around i think my vagina is asleep. [ laughter ] >> was that aisha? sounds like something she would say. >> stephanie: it doesn't need to be awake anyway nothing is going on. >> ah. >> stephanie: nick in l.a. welcome. >> caller: hi, how are you doing, steph. first time caller and i'm [ inaudible ] iraq war veteran -- [ inaudible ] panama war.
grover norquist saying we need to put a leash on the president. not okay. twenty-nine minutes after the hour. right back on the "stephanie miller show." ♪ exciting issue. from financial regulation, iran getting a nuclear bomb, civil war in syria, fraud on wall street, destruction of medicare and medicaid. there are real issues here. having been a governor, i know that trade-offs are tough. things everyday exploding around the world that leave no shortage for exciting conversations....
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grover norquist, that anti-tax pledge guru, his relevance is probably going to go away if taxes go up. he might want to start a marriage equality pledge for republicans to sign. just saying. >> that's a very good idea, thomas. maybe i should write something about that. >> he's part of go proud. gentlemen, thanks so much. just an idea. if it happens, i don't even want 10%. you know? >>> we do have two very special guests coming up on the show tomorrow i want to tell you about. the latest issue of jet magazine getting a lot of buzz. for the first time ever the magazine features a gay couple in its popular section for high profile wedding announcements. that couple, robi perry and paris prince of worcester, massachusetts, they're going to join me tomorrow 11:30 a.m. eastern time. huge significance of that couple's story there. >>> here's a look at stories topping the news now. the u.s. navy s.e.a.l. killed in the hostage rescue operation in afghanistan sunday has been identified as 28-year-old nicolas decheck. a highly decorated combat vet from monroeville, p.a. the embargo on his name j
grover norquist, that anti-tax pledge guru, his relevance is probably going to go away if taxes go up. he might want to start a marriage equality pledge for republicans to sign. just saying. >> that's a very good idea, thomas. maybe i should write something about that. >> he's part of go proud. gentlemen, thanks so much. just an idea. if it happens, i don't even want 10%. you know? >>> we do have two very special guests coming up on the show tomorrow i want to tell you...
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norquist, et cetera. >> let's get to grover norquist in a minute, but i do have a question. the gop plan consists of $2.2 trillion in savings over a decade. that includes raging the eligibility age for medicare from 65 to 67. and lowering cost of living increases for social security benefits. they also propose overhauling the tax code to generate $800 billion in new revenue. but without raising taxes on the wealthy. in a letter to the president, leading republicans compared their plan to one erskine bowles drew up last year. >> not even close. >> he rejected that connection and the white house, of course, is hitting the road. we'll get to that in a moment. but here's my question. i've been watching the coverage of this and reading it. and there's a lot of liberals who were like, he won, ha, ha, they're so arrogant about it, it's hard to like them. because it's just not attractive. but he did -- >> yeah, he won. >> and he is going to the american people with this. and why can't the starting point of these negotiations be about the tax rates and go from there. why are we at sq
norquist, et cetera. >> let's get to grover norquist in a minute, but i do have a question. the gop plan consists of $2.2 trillion in savings over a decade. that includes raging the eligibility age for medicare from 65 to 67. and lowering cost of living increases for social security benefits. they also propose overhauling the tax code to generate $800 billion in new revenue. but without raising taxes on the wealthy. in a letter to the president, leading republicans compared their plan to...
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bob corker, the republican in the senate said he would break the grover norquist push. he didn't talk about the tax rates. as we all know, the key is the president's and democrats insistence on the rate going up from 35 to 39n't 6%. this week, he was much more specific. he's saying to republicans, hey, cut our losses now and live to fight another day. here he is. >> has a growing group of folks looking at this and realizing we don't have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue. we have one house, that's it. the presidency and the senate in the democrats hands. a lot of people are putting forth a theory. i think it has merit. you go in and give the president the 2% increase that he's talking about. the rate increase on the top 2%. all of a sudden, the shift goes back to entitlements. >> what corker is also saying, what he went on to say is when we hit the debt ceiling next year, in february, then republicans are going to have the leverage then. that's something the president dispu disputed. one problem, bob corker is a senator, he's not in the house of representati
bob corker, the republican in the senate said he would break the grover norquist push. he didn't talk about the tax rates. as we all know, the key is the president's and democrats insistence on the rate going up from 35 to 39n't 6%. this week, he was much more specific. he's saying to republicans, hey, cut our losses now and live to fight another day. here he is. >> has a growing group of folks looking at this and realizing we don't have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue. we...
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we are the grover norquist party. makes grover actually have to, you know, have to grovel a little bit. i think that's part of the motivation going on here. i don't see why the add miles per hourstration goes on -- gives itn on entitlement cuts. maybe it's parted of the debt ceiling situation. they don't have to do it now. i don't see why they would. >> the bottom line i have heard from the president and pr-jay carney over and over and over again is tax rates must go up for the top 2% and if they don't get legislation, then -- >> they will go up. >> they will go up. >> but they have not been firm. >> i was going to add that, too. that question has been asked multiple times. every time it's asked, you know, they will say what they say is tax rates have to go up but do they have to go up to 39.6? the tax rates on the wealthy have to go up. i think they would accept 37 if they get for example a deal on the debt ceiling. >> they are not getting that. >> wait. >> get something for it, i think they would accept. >> 39.6. yo
we are the grover norquist party. makes grover actually have to, you know, have to grovel a little bit. i think that's part of the motivation going on here. i don't see why the add miles per hourstration goes on -- gives itn on entitlement cuts. maybe it's parted of the debt ceiling situation. they don't have to do it now. i don't see why they would. >> the bottom line i have heard from the president and pr-jay carney over and over and over again is tax rates must go up for the top 2% and...
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. >> bob, you, yesterday, shadowed grover norquist for quite some time. you went to the meeting, his wednesday meeting. >> that's right. >> he has all the time with some of the most powerful conservatives in d.c. and across the country attending. what was their attitude about any deal that boehner might have to make? >> it's pretty interesting when you talk to house republicans because they look at boehner from two different perspectives. on one side, boehner went in front of the house conference and he said, i'm not going to back any deal that increases rates. so they feel pretty confident on rates. that's where i think "the new york times" comes from. on rates they think boehner is still with house conservatives. at the same time, there's a lot of raised eyebrows right now because just as boehner is promising not to buckle on rates, he's purging four conservatives from committee. >> i was going to ask you about that. now, newt, and bob livingston tried that with mark newman back in '95. that didn't work out well for him. we said we're going to vote agai
. >> bob, you, yesterday, shadowed grover norquist for quite some time. you went to the meeting, his wednesday meeting. >> that's right. >> he has all the time with some of the most powerful conservatives in d.c. and across the country attending. what was their attitude about any deal that boehner might have to make? >> it's pretty interesting when you talk to house republicans because they look at boehner from two different perspectives. on one side, boehner went in...
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others will take their oath to grover norquist. >> coom meeting ceremonies. >> grover, you know, the temple on 16th street. >> maybe the capitol grill, k street. it's unbelievable. >> carnalishment this is something i hope you can get in the debate is why we are here in the first lace that republicans put us on the path to the fiscal cliff by not doing what congress -- dozens of congresses have done, which is to extend the debt limit, not spend more money on getting into debt. >> that's to pay the interest on the debt we already 0. >> that's exact right. >> we are here right now, this republican, you know, fiscal cliff because they forced us to be here because they wouldn't do the responsible thing in 2011. >> exactly. look, we are here because the republicans did what no family may america would do, they took out the credit card. they put expenses on that credit card and decided we don't want to pay what we owe. these were their decisions. history is interesting but it's not going to get us away from this cliff. what will is pass the petition now. we can argue history later. give th
others will take their oath to grover norquist. >> coom meeting ceremonies. >> grover, you know, the temple on 16th street. >> maybe the capitol grill, k street. it's unbelievable. >> carnalishment this is something i hope you can get in the debate is why we are here in the first lace that republicans put us on the path to the fiscal cliff by not doing what congress -- dozens of congresses have done, which is to extend the debt limit, not spend more money on getting into...
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grover norquist, of course, already our guest. he's going to say, we shouldn't have tax increases in this country no matter what, no matter how, no way. then we'll have republican tom cole on, who broke ranks with the republican party, who says, let's extend the bush tax cuts for people making under $250,000 a year and do the rest of it later. something sort of like what the president had put forth. so both of those sides tonight. and then we'll talk about the movie "zero dark 30," already getting oscar buzz, about the raid and capture of osama bin laden. there was all of this concern about whether there was classified information that was linked to the filmmakers that could put the u.s. in jeopardy. we have a special report on what information was leaked. >> looking forward to it. erin burnett, thanks. >>> it started with a fight in the subway and ended with a man's death and a front-page photo that makes the story even more shocking. [ telephones ringing ] at chevy's year-end event, we have 11 vehicles that offer an epa-estimate
grover norquist, of course, already our guest. he's going to say, we shouldn't have tax increases in this country no matter what, no matter how, no way. then we'll have republican tom cole on, who broke ranks with the republican party, who says, let's extend the bush tax cuts for people making under $250,000 a year and do the rest of it later. something sort of like what the president had put forth. so both of those sides tonight. and then we'll talk about the movie "zero dark 30,"...
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Dec 7, 2012
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they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> right. >> and all those folks. >> and you have to get through the rocky shoals of nancy pelosi when you start talking entitlements. >> you see democrats who are, i think, talking very realistically about what needs to be done. on entitlements, i think the question isn't whether we have to do something about medicare, it's how we do something about medicare. >> so wouldn't that be -- and maybe it's naive of me to even bring this up -- but wouldn't that be important for them to take on what those are together and shoulder to shoulder? >> what i remember last summer when the president said to boehner essentially, let's lock arms and jump off the, you know, at that point it was a different kind of cliff, together. it's going to require both leaders. each is going to have to make sacrifices. in order to get this done. and i think that, you know, i think everybody recognizes the consequences of not getting it done. >> so how do you tell republicans that won't support a tax increase unless they believe entitlement reform's c
they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> right. >> and all those folks. >> and you have to get through the rocky shoals of nancy pelosi when you start talking entitlements. >> you see democrats who are, i think, talking very realistically about what needs to be done. on entitlements, i think the question isn't whether we have to do something about medicare, it's how we do something about medicare. >> so wouldn't that be -- and maybe it's...